South Hams meadows

[Richard Lewis]

As Sarah says, your site is probably already full of all kinds of invertebrates feeding and sheltering in the tall vegetation, which in turn will support plenty of birds and small mammals.

I wonder why you want to turn this into a meadow rather than respecting the inherent nature of the site. You can indeed do as Sarah says and scrape off the topsoil and sow 'wildflower' seeds, but this will give you something that is closer to a meadow themed garden rather than a functioning natural ecosystem that reflects the natural character of the site.

I always suggest starting with proper observation - what species of grass are present, what birds are feeding or nesting there, which moths are drawn to a summer moth trap? This will give you a clearer picture of what is already present. If you then want to change the ecology, then why? Because you've read some information about meadows being 'good for biodiversity'? All habitats are 'good for biodiversity', some are more species-rich, some have a higher biomass of animals, some have better carbon storage, some host specific rare species.

Personally, I would counsel that you allow your site to express its own nature and see what develops. Rather than aiming for a specific outcome such as 'wildflower meadow', focus on management techniques and closely observing the results. This could be grazing and mowing to gradually remove nutrients and shift the balance towards finer grasses and greater plant diversity, which will likely take many years, or it may be more hands-off, allowing the tussocky grass to develop into scrubby brambles and eventually natural woodland regeneration.

Good luck on your new adventure of learning from and working with your land.

[Jane W]

In which situations would it be considered a valid option to remove the topsoil from an ecosystem and re-plant with a seed mix?
I have to be honest and say that it engenders in me the same reaction I'd expect to get if I heard the president of Brazil announcing that his 'Rainforest Regeneration Programme' would be to bulldoze the areas, remove everything down to half a metre below soil level and then re-sow with a 'Rainforest Mix'!
However, I have heard it mentioned several times on this forum, and as it is a trustworthy and expert forum, I assume it must have some validity.
I would genuinely love to know when this would be considered a relevant course of action and hope that some kind person will explain it to me please?

Yes, much better I'd agree, to follow Sarah and Richard's suggestions to try and find out whats already living on or through your land before you act.
Things flying around and being visible may be toward the end of their life cycle...yes, its lovely to see butterflies, for example, but the caterpillars will be much less obvious and difficult, often nearly impossible to spot.
I have seen quite large animals ( weasels for example) on my land that, until something killed them and I found the corpse, I had absolutely no idea they were there.
Could be some new forum threads about how to spot the presence of various insects etc.

[sandym]

Thanks all very much for your thoughts - definitely lots to ponder and learn which is what I hoped this forum would give me.
It may be that the soil will be disturbed anyway for a ground source heat pump and this would preclude allowing trees to develop there as pipes may get damaged by large roots. Has anyone had experience of this?Sadly grazing is not an option.

In terms of surveying the grasses/moths /birds etc could you point me in direction of guides on how to best do this - I understand observation is key but lack knowledge of the best recording/identification techniques.

Once again thanks fro taking the time to reply

[Katie Sykes]

Hi
I have a four acre piece of hillside in North Devon that had been grazed/semi improved and mowed .
It is a tricky mix of steep slopes , rocky outcrops and a flat wet bog at the top - I love it though !
We cannot graze it as it is unfenced and we cannot find anyone to mow it as it is more trouble than it is worth so we mow what we can which is about a half acre section and rake that off in late summer then mow again a couple of times in the winter. the yellow rattle grew well last year and it has become a lovely mix of plantain, sorrel, dandelions, cuckoo flower, knapweed and the odd daisy - nothing fancy but full of life.

The rest is now becoming tussocky grassland - I initially worried that we were somehow"failing" but the presence of two barn owls hunting each evening made me realise that what we have is one of the only "unmanaged" pieces of grassland in the whole area and it is perfect for them. The mice and voles love the layers of grass as do the frogs/toads , newts and many invertebrates . The swallows feed over it more than the mown section .

We created a bank that I sowed with wild carrot , foxgloves etc - I imagine it will slowly become dominated by thistles (full of nectar) but again it hummed with life this summer .

Occasionally we scythe down small areas at random times just to let the birds get at the soil and that can suddenly produce a surprise little crop of yarrow or trefoil .

We are also planting lots of nectar rich trees and bushes in small clumps so eventually it will be a bit of something for everyone - scruffy but full of life .

[RichardR]

Hi everyone, I've just acquired two acres near Meavy, just inside the national park boundary. I'm lucky wrt winter grazing: I just leave the gate open and the sheep and ponies wander in and keep the grass down for me! I'll be trying to regenerate the meadow (organically) in earnest this year, I hope to put a small orchard in too. Until I joined the group I hadn't considered the implications of fertile soil, nor had I realised how long it can take for a meadow to regenerate; I'm not happy with spraying or removing the top soil, has anyone any experience in growing crops to 'de-fertilise' the soil? Regards Richard

[Jane W]

Hi Richard. Yes, I think there's more or less a concensus that the best way to decrease soil fertility is to remove the grass cuttings every time you cut the grass. This can be with a machine or by hand. It may be several times a year or once every several years. A good average may be to cut once a year in late summer or Autumn and see how you go. If you can then open your gates over winter and have the local animals graze it, then it sounds ideal. Close them in spring and see what plants come up.
There was some discussion recently about 'nutrient hungry' crops ...but this was mainly to do with a conversation about what to do with all the grass cuttings that you have left. You'd be amazed how much can be generated in even quite a small field. Using it for animal feed is obviously an ideal option, but its not always feasible. Farmers often won't come to cut a small area. Finding somewhere to put all the grass cuttings is quite a big problem. They are bulky and heavy to move around.
Some people use the cuttings to make compost. Let it rot down for a couple of years and use as a compost, put it in some raised beds, use as a mulch etc. Or just put the piles where you want the vegetables and plant straight into them. If I remember rightly, nutrient hungry possible crops were squash, potatoes, rhubarb. There are probably plenty more.
I'm not sure anyone would suggest planting directly into your meadow, as it would change the nature of it into something else.
As has been suggested previously, observation is the key. Spend a year observing what you have in your meadow/grassland. Don't decide you have a 'problem' before you start, because you probably don't. Most grasslands left to their own devices, without pesticides or over mowing, will be teeming with life and a joy to behold.